These bona fide spenders ("The B.S. Group", aka "Friends of Valley View", aka "The First Party") presents a tentative budget with a $7.9 million deficit.
Why don't they make the cuts necessary to balance the budget?
As a government finance watchdog advocate, I would never publish an article questioning budgets without knowing what makes up the budget.
Here's where I would start -
1. Gut out the administrator dept. There are too many administrators with high paying salaries. Costing the taxpayers millions.
The newly crowned Superintendent Mitchem just created more administrator jobs. A Big Spender.
2. Give back the $16,000 dollars in campaign contribution from the AFT. Then start to negotiate with them from a position of honesty and fiscal restraint.
The District can not afford to give them raises this year. In addition, the District should not offer multi-year guaranteed raises going forward.
We can't afford it.
3. Do not give the other two unions guaranteed raises either.
We are in an economic crisis. No individual or group should be given multi-year, guaranteed raises.
We can't afford it.
4. Stop blaming the budget issues on the State. The State has been slow to provide funding to the district for several years now.
Why not create a real budget that excludes a portion of the State's funding? There's no excuse.
The Number Crunchers will review the final budget once the District makes it available.
Know what I would cut without any trepidation at all? ESL EVERYTHING ... Classes, Teachers, Printing every single VVSD document in english AND spanish.
Deputy Mayor, Leroy Browns head of security job. He's a nice guy, but why do we need him? The BB Police department can handle the security at the high schools.
Contracts are legally binding and the district agreed to them. If you've got proof that the school district was bribed by the union, let's see it! If not, shut up!
Re> the binding contracts. There are ways around it. The City of Chicago just did it. Plus, the board members that took money from the AFT should give that money back.
When times were good, how many times did the school district go to the teachers mid-contarct and say "Let's open up talks again. We want to give you a better contract than we previously negotiated"?
Sure, everyone is for cutting salaries until the teachers go out on strike. Then they'll be screaming for a settlement so they can send the kids back to school and not have to worry about daycare.
Tell me, what is a Teacher worth?
My teachers were worth a lot more than what they were getting paid.
If the clowns in politics and on wall street can become rich risking our 401k's and mutual funds, then I think teachers deserve a fair wage for teaching our children. If teaching was such an easy profession we would all be teachers.
I would like to take a moment to stress the point that I have nothing but the upmost respect for teachers, and understand how hard it is to educate children.
That's why I chose accounting instead of education.
But districts across the country are struggling with chronic budget deficits.
Eventually, the community will need to address the deficit. Honestly.
How can we ever address the deficit if we don't talk honestly about the bloated administator cost, and multi-year, guaranteed raises to teachers?
It w/b nice to hear from teachers. To understand their point of view.
The Unions are only out to represent the Unions and couldn't care less about the students. Unions ARE the problem--you can be the BEST teacher or a total bozo and both will get the same raise under the Union plan. True competition and pay for PERFORMANCE (not pay because you signed a union card) are the solution.
To the poster who talked about striking it's claar you couldn't care less about the students. All striking teachers should be FIRED and replaced with competent professionals who actually care about the students and being highly competent teachers.
Quiqley gave the Union a 21.5% pay rise over four years.
It really does not matter if he is a puppet or a marionette of the Mayor, what he did showed no fiscal restraint with tax payers money. If my CEO gave our employees the same deal, the shareholders would have taken him out to the woodshed.
Quiqley is not a businessman he is a left wing lobbyist and that is why we have been saddled with this ridiculous contract. Even the deputy superintendent in his budget address pointed out that the deficit was due to the contract Quiqley negotiated.
As for the poster who asked how to measure teachers on performance, its very simple,use cascaded objectives.
Why not have the teachers and students put in a 7 1/2 to 8 hr work day? We have to do that in the private sector. It sure might improve results even if the students are in some study halls for some of the time. Also, it might cut down on gang activity. I would suggest starting the day at 8 or 8:30 a.m. instead of 7:30 a.m.
As Rhonda said..cut the administrative fat!
Stop negotiating the cost of living raises when there has been almost zero cost of living...ask any social security or armed forces pension recipient...we have had 2 yrs of no increases.
Teachers only work 9 months a year ..why pay them like they are working 12 months a yr? If they want more ...get a summer job.
Teachers unions are like other government employee/worker unions. They elect (with their union dues) the politicians who give them their raises and benefits. This does not compare to the private sector where their is real negotiation with unions and management. Wisconsin gets it. Thanks to Governor Scott Walker things are changing in Wisconsin. Somebody is on the side of the taxpayers. Here in Bolingbrook that is not the case.
To the poster that said "Quiqley gave the Union a 21.5% pay rise over four years", you are WRONG! Quigly did not give the raises. As a matter of fact, Mark Cothron was the president of the the VVDS365U school board at the time the contract was signed. His signature along with Liz Campbell's is on the document as representatives for the school board.
Check your facts before making yourself look stupid!
"As for the poster who asked how to measure teachers on performance, its very simple,use cascaded objectives. "
You are basing a teacher's performance on what someone else is able to or wants to do. The teacher has no control over test scores if the student chooses not to come to school, not to study, has no resources or support at home, is not able to meet grade level standards...
Let's apply your standards to other professions like dentists and doctors. Performance evals will now apply to them based on how their patients follow the instruction that they were given. A dentist that fills too many teeth will no longer meeting performance standards. It's the dentist's responsibility to teach their patients to brush and floss but if they don't do it, they get cavities. Same goes for teachers. They can teach the students but if the students don't or can't do their part, the teacher is the one blamed.
Same goes for doctors. They teach their patients (students) to eat right, exercise and give up unhealthy things like smoking and drinking but if their students don't perform, the doctor is the one that risks loosing his/her job, salary...
Joe--the previous poster didn't specify what the cascaded objectives would be. If you had any experience in the private workforce though you would know that cascaded objectives is the standard evaluation frame work. Sounds like you're against students performance being one of the cascaded objectives though. That union approach is just continuing the same status quo problem.
My comments are directed to Anonymous that said "Quiqley gave the Union a 21.5% pay rise over four years.
It really does not matter if he is a puppet or a marionette of the Mayor, what he did showed no fiscal restraint with tax payers money. If my CEO gave our employees the same deal, the shareholders would have taken him out to the woodshed.
Quiqley is not a businessman he is a left wing lobbyist and that is why we have been saddled with this ridiculous contract. Even the deputy superintendent in his budget address pointed out that the deficit was due to the contract Quiqley negotiated.
As for the poster who asked how to measure teachers on performance, its very simple,use cascaded objectives."
I would appreciate it if you can explain your comments. Because this is a blog about numbers, I checked what you said. The starting salary for teachers increased by 6.1% from 08-09 to 11-12. The starting salary for a teacher in 08-09 was $43,898. The starting salary for a teacher in 11-12 is $46,572. The salary for a 4th year teacher in 11-12 is $49,422. What numbers did you use to come up with an increase of 21.5%?
I have to ask you why you blame Quigely for the contract when Mark Cothron was President(resigned when he moved out of town) and Liz Campbell was secretary when the contract was negotiated and signed? Both of their names can be found on the document.
Lastly, can you give us some examples of the cascading objectives that you think would be fair to evaluate the performance of teachers?
If at all possible I would like to make a comment on Quiqleys involvement. As I recall he was on the board in October 2008 and "was party to", "in agreement with", "actively supported" and "fully endorsed" a 5% COLA adjustment for four years, just as we were three months into the start of the great depression. Just because his name was not on the contract is irrelevant.
As for cascading objectives, I like that idea. My thoughts without any research, deep analysis and based upon conventional thinking only, would be along the lines of AYP increases in say Reading and Math. These are only initial thoughts so please do not shoot me down, this is a discussion blog and I am opening up the start of some new discourse.
Quigley was a member of the school board at the time of the contract just like Liz Campbell was but I haven't seen her name mentioned when blame is thrown around.
APY is a term tossed around a lot. How does that apply to the students that just don't want to do the work? How about SpEd, art, music, pe...teachers?
In 2010, BHS had an attendance rate of 87.9%, mobility rate of 28.4%, 387 (11.1%) chronic truants, a drop out rate of 2.7% and a graduation rate of 90.5%.
If the kids aren't coming to school, the teacher can't teach them. Even if they come to school, it doesn't mean that they want to be there.
I like the comment about the dentist. They teach us to brush and floss but if we don't do it, the dentist must be at fault for the cavities.
There are a lot of people wanting to blame Mr Quigley but when it's pointed out that Liz Campbell was the secretary and signed the contract with the teachers, everyone shuts up.
As I see it Quiqley is the current board president and he is the one who should be talking with the Union now and seeking a new contract with zero COLA. If he needs to sit with Liz Campbell as she was one of the two who agreed to the contract in 2008 then so be it, let them do it.
As for the post above about how to apply teacher objectives to students who do not want to study, attend school or are disruptive when they are there, I do not know the answer. However, we have highly paid administrators earning 300 plus a year with a supporting cast of deputies, assistants and other associates who should be able to put an incentive plan together. All they have to do is think outside the box.
I have only just found this site and I am both encouraged and discouraged. Encouraged because this is a site that allows open honest communication, but I am discouraged because of the harsh comments individuals say about one another just because they do not agree with someones thought.
I feel the Dr & Dentist analogy above is used in the wrong context but I would not dream of calling the poster inane. Look I do not believe in choir boy posts, but a touch of civility might be prudent.
Kim, If you want to post with your name, instead of clicking on "anonymous", click on the spot above it where it says "Name/URL". A box will come up that says "edit profile". Enter your name there.
I've read through all of these comments and I'm curious why you don't agree with the doctor/dentist analogy. Part of the job of the doctor/dentist is to instruct their patients.
I don't know what the answer is to evaluations because teaching is unlike any other profession in that the teacher would be evaluated based on the performance of others.
The school board president and secretary sign the contract but according to the district website, the HR dept is responsible for contract negotiations. I would think that there are members from the board, the community and the district office involved in the process at some point so it's not fair to place the blame and responsibility on one person.
"The Human Resources Department is responsible for recruitment, compensation and benefits, staffing allocations, employment opportunities, teacher and administrator certification, student services, transfers, contract negotiations, staff evaluations, paraprofessional certification, guest teaching and the implementation of NCLB as it relates to Human Resources."
The quote above is copied from the district website.
http://www.vvsd.org/departments/hr/#
My understanding is that the principal of the the school does the interview and chooses the candidate to hire. That person is then recommended to the school board to be voted on.
I'm not aware of any case where the school board voted against hiring a teacher recommended to them by the principal.
With regard to Liz and Jim, here's an interesting article. Last year, both of them voted against the rest of the board when it came to reducing the salary for long term subs.
Also keep in mind the Jim's wife is a teacher in the district and Liz was/is a substitute teacher.
You are combining two separate issues: The recruitment of teachers, and union contracts.
The school board alone is given the power to approve union contracts. That's their job.
In essence, they are the board of directors of the school district.
Principals, teachers, directors, etc. can weigh-in on union contracts (during negotiations), but the power lies exclusively with the school board to approve union contracts.
Consider contacting the school board members directly. Keeping 2 questions in mind.
1. How do they plan on closing the $7.9 million budget deficit?
2. Will they agree to multi-year, guaranteed raises for the 3 unions? yet again. (next year)
Lets start asking our elected officials real questions.
"The Human Resources Department is responsible for recruitment, compensation and benefits, staffing allocations, employment opportunities, teacher and administrator certification, student services, transfers, CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS, staff evaluations, paraprofessional certification, guest teaching and the implementation of NCLB as it relates to Human Resources."
I understand that the board approves or denies the contract but I don't believe that the only people involved in the negotiating process are board members and union reps.
Just so I understand, Rhonda said that Jim Curran and Liz Campbell are the only two board members without political ties but they are also the only two board members that voted against the rest of the board last year to eliminate the bonus paid to substitute teachers that work more than 30 days. Had this decision not passes in spite of Curran and Campbell voting against it, we would be in debt by an additional $400,000. Where's the outrage about that?
I didn't know that Mr. Curran's wife is a teacher and that Ms Campbell worked as a sub in the district. Thanks for pointing that out Anonymous!
The passionate debate on this subject is very encouraging. Rhonda is right, people need to start asking school board members real questions about finances. Better yet, come to a school board meeting and ask those questions.
The guaranteed 5% salary increases voted in by a previous board is the problem driving the budget deficit. Additional debt has been taken on to “correct” the deficits. But the deficits are never corrected. We see this same fiscally irresponsible behavior at the state and federal level. We are in a debt spiral at all levels and the only way to stop it is to cut spending. You can’t have 80% (teacher salaries and benefits) of your spending on autopilot and constantly blame the state for not paying its bills. We all know the state of Illinois is bankrupt and corrupt to the core. Of course they aren’t paying their bills. This board and previous boards have known that but continue to use it as a convenient scapegoat. The only way we can prevent this from happening again is to contact board members and show up at board meetings to advocate for a 0% increase in the upcoming contract. We often hear about sharing in the sacrifice. When are the unions going to share in the sacrifice?
The board members who just got elected with union money are a prime example of why this district, this state, and our nation are financially and morally bankrupt.
Does anyone really believe these board members will negotiate with the unions on behalf of taxpayers?
If you don’t think so, please contact board members and/or go to board meetings to advocate for a 0% increase in the upcoming contract.
Offer parents school choice. Parents should be able to vote with their feet and their money just like they do for doctors, dentists, and any other professionals in the private sector. But unions will never support school choice because they would no longer have a monopoly on education dollars.
Unions constantly play games focusing on the impossibility of some education bureaucrat evaluating teachers fairly. But that’s not the right problem.
Does anyone ask to see some meaningless evaluation done by some bureaucrat when trying to evaluate your doctor or dentist? No, you rely on your personal experience and that of other clients of that doctor or dentist. Same thing with your roofer, plumber, hair dresser, accountant, landscaper, etc.
Just like any other profession, if teachers were evaluated by parents, good teachers (I believe most teachers are good teachers) would rise to the top and bad teachers would be driven out of education.
There is nothing unique about teachers other than the fact that they are subject to a union which promotes mediocrity and financially unsustainable practices.
Cedra, Do you think that board members that have family members of friends working for the district will vote for a contract that is fair to the taxpayers or one that will benefit their family the most?
Interesting! People on the board are accused on underhanded deals because of some presumed political connection but people with DIRECT connections to union members are given a free pass.
Can you tell us how many times Curran or Campbell have abstained from voting on matters that involve teachers?
The Friends of Valley View(QUIGLEY,GOUGIS,VENEGAS,BULL & HANSEN) received money from the teachers' union, and is heavily funded by Mayor Claar and The First Party.
Mark my word. Those 5 will approve the mult-year guaranteed raises, because they were paid to do so.
I agree with Rhonda's assertion that Curran & Campbell are fairly independent.
All 7 board members need to work on closing the $7.9 million deficit, legitimately.
Legal Eagle, The topic of this discussion is a balanced budget so talking about Campbell and Curran voting against a reduction in spending is a very valid point.
Do you at least acknowledge the fact that Curran may have a greater stake in contract negotiations since his wife teaches in the district? Campbell has also subbed in the district and was involved in negotiations that resulted in the current contract. Her signature is even on the document!
Both of these two voted against the rest of the members, as you call them--- Friends of Valley View, when they approved a motion saving the taxpayers A LOT of money by getting rid of the pay increase for long term subs.
This sure sounds to me like they've got some friends or family members that were benefiting from this extra money. Why else would they vote AGAINST saving the taxpayers of VVSD 365U over $400,000.00? Can you show us that either of these two voted for any cuts in spending as it relates to teachers?
What benefit did they get from voting against reducing the pay of long term subs? Why would they have voted against that, but not against other reductions?
Board members, STEVE QUIGLEY (president) and RICK GOUGIS (VP) both head-up the finance committee. They are a 2-member "expert" team that can answer bond debt, and union contract issues.
Consider giving them a call, or attend the board meeting on September 12 to speak with them directly.
WHAT would YOU have them do to balance the budget?
ReplyDeleteWhat cuts would be acceptable to you?
Instead of nit picking about every little thing, how about offering up REASONABLE solutions.
Contrary to YOUR belief, not everything is the Mayor's fault, or VOB board's fault, or VVSD board's fault.
Also, how much of the deficit is a by-product of the STATE still owing them money?
What would "I" have them do? Are you serious?
ReplyDeleteAs a government finance watchdog advocate, I would never publish an article questioning budgets without knowing what makes up the budget.
Here's where I would start -
1. Gut out the administrator dept. There are too many administrators with high paying salaries. Costing the taxpayers millions.
The newly crowned Superintendent Mitchem just created more administrator jobs. A Big Spender.
2. Give back the $16,000 dollars in campaign contribution from the AFT. Then start to negotiate with them from a position of honesty and fiscal restraint.
The District can not afford to give them raises this year. In addition, the District should not offer multi-year guaranteed raises going forward.
We can't afford it.
3. Do not give the other two unions guaranteed raises either.
We are in an economic crisis. No individual or group should be given multi-year, guaranteed raises.
We can't afford it.
4. Stop blaming the budget issues on the State. The State has been slow to provide funding to the district for several years now.
Why not create a real budget that excludes a portion of the State's funding? There's no excuse.
The Number Crunchers will review the final budget once the District makes it available.
Stay tuned for future articles on this subject.
That's a start.
ReplyDeleteKnow what I would cut without any trepidation at all? ESL EVERYTHING ... Classes, Teachers, Printing every single VVSD document in english AND spanish.
Know what I would cut?
ReplyDeleteDeputy Mayor, Leroy Browns head of security job. He's a nice guy, but why do we need him? The BB Police department can handle the security at the high schools.
A waste of money.
And there it is, four replies in, already attacking someone who just so happens to have ties to the Mayor.
ReplyDeleteWhy do I even bother :/
Contracts are legally binding and the district agreed to them. If you've got proof that the school district was bribed by the union, let's see it! If not, shut up!
ReplyDeleteTo the 2 last Anonymous's: Any comment on the $7.9 million deficit? Are you comfortable with that?
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you stick to the subject?
Not everyone in the community like Claar or his minions. Like the article stated, they are BIG SPENDERS.
Guess the truth hurts. Get over it.
Re> the binding contracts. There are ways around it. The City of Chicago just did it. Plus, the board members that took money from the AFT should give that money back.
ReplyDeleteIt's a conflict of interest.
Just balance the budget for Christ sakes. How can any member of the school board defend a $7.9 mill deficit?
ReplyDeleteLOL. We can't stop laughing. Love the names. aka Bull Shitters, aka Friends of VV, aka The First Pty.
ReplyDeleteit's so true.
When times were good, how many times did the school district go to the teachers mid-contarct and say "Let's open up talks again. We want to give you a better contract than we previously negotiated"?
ReplyDeleteSure, everyone is for cutting salaries until the teachers go out on strike. Then they'll be screaming for a settlement so they can send the kids back to school and not have to worry about daycare.
ReplyDeleteTell me, what is a Teacher worth?
My teachers were worth a lot more than what they were getting paid.
If the clowns in politics and on wall street can become rich risking our 401k's and mutual funds, then I think teachers deserve a fair wage for teaching our children. If teaching was such an easy profession we would all be teachers.
If the private sector's not giving their employees guaranteed raises, why should teachers get them?
ReplyDeleteFair is fair.
Excellent debate, and I appreciate the comments.
ReplyDeleteI would like to take a moment to stress the point that I have nothing but the upmost respect for teachers, and understand how hard it is to educate children.
That's why I chose accounting instead of education.
But districts across the country are struggling with chronic budget deficits.
Eventually, the community will need to address the deficit. Honestly.
How can we ever address the deficit if we don't talk honestly about the bloated administator cost, and multi-year, guaranteed raises to teachers?
It w/b nice to hear from teachers. To understand their point of view.
The Unions are only out to represent the Unions and couldn't care less about the students. Unions ARE the problem--you can be the BEST teacher or a total bozo and both will get the same raise under the Union plan.
ReplyDeleteTrue competition and pay for PERFORMANCE (not pay because you signed a union card) are the solution.
To the poster who talked about striking it's claar you couldn't care less about the students. All striking teachers should be FIRED and replaced with competent professionals who actually care about the students and being highly competent teachers.
"To the poster who talked about striking it's claar you couldn't care less about the students."
ReplyDeleteIt's "CLEAR" that you don't like the mayor.
As for paying teachers based on PERFORMANCE, how exactly would you suggest a fair way of doing that?
The Friends of Valley View are 100% backed by Mayor Claar, and they all campaign with The First Party.
ReplyDeleteStop pretending as if there's no connection between Mayor Claar and the school board.
How do you think they got the $16k from AFT in the first place? Claar is very close with the head of the AFT in Joliet.
Lets start being truthful here.
Give the $16k back to AFT. Otherwise, your motives will always be questioned.
Quiqley gave the Union a 21.5% pay rise over four years.
ReplyDeleteIt really does not matter if he is a puppet or a marionette of the Mayor, what he did showed no fiscal restraint with tax payers money. If my CEO gave our employees the same deal, the shareholders would have taken him out to the woodshed.
Quiqley is not a businessman he is a left wing lobbyist and that is why we have been saddled with this ridiculous contract. Even the deputy superintendent in his budget address pointed out that the deficit was due to the contract Quiqley negotiated.
As for the poster who asked how to measure teachers on performance, its very simple,use cascaded objectives.
Why not have the teachers and students put in a 7 1/2 to 8 hr work day? We have to do that in the private sector. It sure might improve results even if the students are in some study halls for some of the time. Also, it might cut down on gang activity. I would suggest starting the day at 8 or 8:30 a.m. instead of 7:30 a.m.
ReplyDeleteAs Rhonda said..cut the administrative fat!
Stop negotiating the cost of living raises when there has been almost zero cost of living...ask any social security or armed forces pension recipient...we have had 2 yrs of no increases.
Teachers only work 9 months a year ..why pay them like they are working 12 months a yr? If they want more ...get a summer job.
Teachers unions are like other government employee/worker unions. They elect (with their union dues) the politicians who give them their raises and benefits. This does not compare to the private sector where their is real negotiation with unions and management. Wisconsin gets it. Thanks to Governor Scott Walker things are changing in Wisconsin. Somebody is on the side of the taxpayers. Here in Bolingbrook that is not the case.
I agree with the last Anonymous comments. "Stop negotiating the cost of living raises when there has been almost zero cost of living.."
ReplyDeleteThe teachers union has moved way past negotiating for fair pay, and is now only concerned with lining its members pockets.
How can they justify forcing guaranteed raises, when the country is struggling financially?
They claim to care about educating our children, but test scores prove otherwise.
It's all a game.
To the poster that said "Quiqley gave the Union a 21.5% pay rise over four years", you are WRONG! Quigly did not give the raises. As a matter of fact, Mark Cothron was the president of the the VVDS365U school board at the time the contract was signed. His signature along with Liz Campbell's is on the document as representatives for the school board.
ReplyDeleteCheck your facts before making yourself look stupid!
"As for the poster who asked how to measure teachers on performance, its very simple,use cascaded objectives. "
ReplyDeleteYou are basing a teacher's performance on what someone else is able to or wants to do. The teacher has no control over test scores if the student chooses not to come to school, not to study, has no resources or support at home, is not able to meet grade level standards...
Let's apply your standards to other professions like dentists and doctors. Performance evals will now apply to them based on how their patients follow the instruction that they were given. A dentist that fills too many teeth will no longer meeting performance standards. It's the dentist's responsibility to teach their patients to brush and floss but if they don't do it, they get cavities. Same goes for teachers. They can teach the students but if the students don't or can't do their part, the teacher is the one blamed.
Same goes for doctors. They teach their patients (students) to eat right, exercise and give up unhealthy things like smoking and drinking but if their students don't perform, the doctor is the one that risks loosing his/her job, salary...
How does that sound?
Joe--the previous poster didn't specify what the cascaded objectives would be. If you had any experience in the private workforce though you would know that cascaded objectives is the standard evaluation frame work.
ReplyDeleteSounds like you're against students performance being one of the cascaded objectives though. That union approach is just continuing the same status quo problem.
So give us some specifics. Besides student performance, how would you rate teacher performance?
ReplyDeleteMy comments are directed to Anonymous that said "Quiqley gave the Union a 21.5% pay rise over four years.
ReplyDeleteIt really does not matter if he is a puppet or a marionette of the Mayor, what he did showed no fiscal restraint with tax payers money. If my CEO gave our employees the same deal, the shareholders would have taken him out to the woodshed.
Quiqley is not a businessman he is a left wing lobbyist and that is why we have been saddled with this ridiculous contract. Even the deputy superintendent in his budget address pointed out that the deficit was due to the contract Quiqley negotiated.
As for the poster who asked how to measure teachers on performance, its very simple,use cascaded objectives."
I would appreciate it if you can explain your comments. Because this is a blog about numbers, I checked what you said. The starting salary for teachers increased by 6.1% from 08-09 to 11-12. The starting salary for a teacher in 08-09 was $43,898. The starting salary for a teacher in 11-12 is $46,572. The salary for a 4th year teacher in 11-12 is $49,422. What numbers did you use to come up with an increase of 21.5%?
I have to ask you why you blame Quigely for the contract when Mark Cothron was President(resigned when he moved out of town) and Liz Campbell was secretary when the contract was negotiated and signed? Both of their names can be found on the document.
Lastly, can you give us some examples of the cascading objectives that you think would be fair to evaluate the performance of teachers?
I look forward to hearing your reply.
Thank You!
If at all possible I would like to make a comment on Quiqleys involvement. As I recall he was on the board in October 2008 and "was party to", "in agreement with", "actively supported" and "fully endorsed" a 5% COLA adjustment for four years, just as we were three months into the start of the great depression. Just because his name was not on the contract is irrelevant.
ReplyDeleteAs for cascading objectives, I like that idea. My thoughts without any research, deep analysis and based upon conventional thinking only, would be along the lines of AYP increases in say Reading and Math. These are only initial thoughts so please do not shoot me down, this is a discussion blog and I am opening up the start of some new discourse.
Good morning All,
ReplyDeleteAs Anonymous suggested, lets open up the discussion and start some new discourse, without attacking each other.
I strongly believe EVERY voice counts, and the only way change can happen is when we honestly, and openly discuss the problems in our community.
School District finance is an incredibly important topic.
As taxpayers, we need to find out how the school board plan to close the $7.9 million deficit? There's been chronic deficits for several years now.
The floor is open (for discussion).
Thanks again for all the comments.
Quigley was a member of the school board at the time of the contract just like Liz Campbell was but I haven't seen her name mentioned when blame is thrown around.
ReplyDeleteMakes you wonder now doesn't it.
APY is a term tossed around a lot. How does that apply to the students that just don't want to do the work? How about SpEd, art, music, pe...teachers?
ReplyDeleteIn 2010, BHS had an attendance rate of 87.9%, mobility rate of 28.4%, 387 (11.1%) chronic truants, a drop out rate of 2.7% and a graduation rate of 90.5%.
If the kids aren't coming to school, the teacher can't teach them. Even if they come to school, it doesn't mean that they want to be there.
I like the comment about the dentist. They teach us to brush and floss but if we don't do it, the dentist must be at fault for the cavities.
I wish I could work out how to post my name, I know its an age thing so I will start my blogs with "Hi its Kim".
ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of people wanting to blame Mr Quigley but when it's pointed out that Liz Campbell was the secretary and signed the contract with the teachers, everyone shuts up.
ReplyDeleteHi its Kim.
ReplyDeleteAs I see it Quiqley is the current board president and he is the one who should be talking with the Union now and seeking a new contract with zero COLA. If he needs to sit with Liz Campbell as she was one of the two who agreed to the contract in 2008 then so be it, let them do it.
As for the post above about how to apply teacher objectives to students who do not want to study, attend school or are disruptive when they are there, I do not know the answer. However, we have highly paid administrators earning 300 plus a year with a supporting cast of deputies, assistants and other associates who should be able to put an incentive plan together. All they have to do is think outside the box.
I have only just found this site and I am both encouraged and discouraged. Encouraged because this is a site that allows open honest communication, but I am discouraged because of the harsh comments individuals say about one another just because they do not agree with someones thought.
I feel the Dr & Dentist analogy above is used in the wrong context but I would not dream of calling the poster inane. Look I do not believe in choir boy posts, but a touch of civility might be prudent.
Kim, If you want to post with your name, instead of clicking on "anonymous", click on the spot above it where it says "Name/URL". A box will come up that says "edit profile". Enter your name there.
ReplyDeleteI've read through all of these comments and I'm curious why you don't agree with the doctor/dentist analogy. Part of the job of the doctor/dentist is to instruct their patients.
I don't know what the answer is to evaluations because teaching is unlike any other profession in that the teacher would be evaluated based on the performance of others.
For those who are interested in adding a "name" to your comments, here's how to do it -
ReplyDelete1. Add your comments, then click the drop down box and click NAME/URL.
2. Add your "blog name" or real "name" to the top line only.
3. Click CONTINUE.
4. Verify your name in the "Comment as" box.
4. Click POST COMMENT.
Please let me know if you have any trouble.
Thanks!
REPOST: LEGAL EAGLE 8/16/11,5:44PM
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kim's comment. SB President, Steve Quigley should take the lead and start union negotiations early. Zero COLA.
Any other contract would be unfair.
The school board president and secretary sign the contract but according to the district website, the HR dept is responsible for contract negotiations.
ReplyDeleteI would think that there are members from the board, the community and the district office involved in the process at some point so it's not fair to place the blame and responsibility on one person.
"The Human Resources Department is responsible for recruitment, compensation and benefits, staffing allocations, employment opportunities, teacher and administrator certification, student services, transfers, contract negotiations, staff evaluations, paraprofessional certification, guest teaching and the implementation of NCLB as it relates to Human Resources."
That's incorrect.
ReplyDeleteThe school board negotiate and approve union contracts.
The HR department is responsible for hiring teachers. In regards to pay, they follow the guidelines set in the union contracts.
The sole responsibility of union contracts rest with the school board.
ReplyDeleteThere are 7 members on the board. 5 (the majority) are fully funded and supported by Mayor Claar, and the teachers union.
If you want answers. Why not give one of them a call.
STEVE QUIGLEY, President
RICK GOUGIS, Vice Pres.
LEO VENEGAS, Secretary
RON BULL
CHRYSTAL HANSEN
The only 2 members that appear to be independent, and not connected with any political regime are -
JIM CURRAN and LIZ CAMPBELL. Consider contacting them as well.
Their contact information can be found at vvsd.org
The quote above is copied from the district website.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.vvsd.org/departments/hr/#
My understanding is that the principal of the the school does the interview and chooses the candidate to hire. That person is then recommended to the school board to be voted on.
I'm not aware of any case where the school board voted against hiring a teacher recommended to them by the principal.
With regard to Liz and Jim, here's an interesting article. Last year, both of them voted against the rest of the board when it came to reducing the salary for long term subs.
ReplyDeleteAlso keep in mind the Jim's wife is a teacher in the district and Liz was/is a substitute teacher.
http://triblocal.com/bolingbrook/2010/08/10/valley-view-district-slashes-pay-rate-for-substitute-teachers/
To Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteYou are combining two separate issues: The recruitment of teachers, and union contracts.
The school board alone is given the power to approve union contracts. That's their job.
In essence, they are the board of directors of the school district.
Principals, teachers, directors, etc. can weigh-in on union contracts (during negotiations), but the power lies exclusively with the school board to approve union contracts.
Consider contacting the school board members directly. Keeping 2 questions in mind.
1. How do they plan on closing the $7.9 million budget deficit?
2. Will they agree to multi-year, guaranteed raises for the 3 unions? yet again. (next year)
Lets start asking our elected officials real questions.
The quote from the district website says
ReplyDelete"The Human Resources Department is responsible for recruitment, compensation and benefits, staffing allocations, employment opportunities, teacher and administrator certification, student services, transfers, CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS, staff evaluations, paraprofessional certification, guest teaching and the implementation of NCLB as it relates to Human Resources."
I understand that the board approves or denies the contract but I don't believe that the only people involved in the negotiating process are board members and union reps.
To Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteAs stated,
The "negotiating" process is open to all. But the final "approval" of the union contracts lies exclusively with the board.
Just so I understand, Rhonda said that Jim Curran and Liz Campbell are the only two board members without political ties but they are also the only two board members that voted against the rest of the board last year to eliminate the bonus paid to substitute teachers that work more than 30 days. Had this decision not passes in spite of Curran and Campbell voting against it, we would be in debt by an additional $400,000. Where's the outrage about that?
ReplyDeleteI didn't know that Mr. Curran's wife is a teacher and that Ms Campbell worked as a sub in the district. Thanks for pointing that out Anonymous!
Cool. That's a start. Eliminate the substitute teachers bonus. That's $7.9 mill less the $400k.
ReplyDeleteHow much money will the district save if the teachers are not given the guaranteed raises? Bet that can save us several million.
Stop "passin' the buck" and just balance the budget.
The passionate debate on this subject is very encouraging. Rhonda is right, people need to start asking school board members real questions about finances. Better yet, come to a school board meeting and ask those questions.
ReplyDeleteThe guaranteed 5% salary increases voted in by a previous board is the problem driving the budget deficit. Additional debt has been taken on to “correct” the deficits. But the deficits are never corrected. We see this same fiscally irresponsible behavior at the state and federal level. We are in a debt spiral at all levels and the only way to stop it is to cut spending. You can’t have 80% (teacher salaries and benefits) of your spending on autopilot and constantly blame the state for not paying its bills. We all know the state of Illinois is bankrupt and corrupt to the core. Of course they aren’t paying their bills. This board and previous boards have known that but continue to use it as a convenient scapegoat. The only way we can prevent this from happening again is to contact board members and show up at board meetings to advocate for a 0% increase in the upcoming contract. We often hear about sharing in the sacrifice. When are the unions going to share in the sacrifice?
As for the union money...
ReplyDeleteThe board members who just got elected with union money are a prime example of why this district, this state, and our nation are financially and morally bankrupt.
Does anyone really believe these board members will negotiate with the unions on behalf of taxpayers?
If you don’t think so, please contact board members and/or go to board meetings to advocate for a 0% increase in the upcoming contract.
The best way to evaluate teachers is to...
ReplyDeleteOffer parents school choice. Parents should be able to vote with their feet and their money just like they do for doctors, dentists, and any other professionals in the private sector. But unions will never support school choice because they would no longer have a monopoly on education dollars.
Unions constantly play games focusing on the impossibility of some education bureaucrat evaluating teachers fairly. But that’s not the right problem.
Does anyone ask to see some meaningless evaluation done by some bureaucrat when trying to evaluate your doctor or dentist? No, you rely on your personal experience and that of other clients of that doctor or dentist. Same thing with your roofer, plumber, hair dresser, accountant, landscaper, etc.
Just like any other profession, if teachers were evaluated by parents, good teachers (I believe most teachers are good teachers) would rise to the top and bad teachers would be driven out of education.
There is nothing unique about teachers other than the fact that they are subject to a union which promotes mediocrity and financially unsustainable practices.
Cedra,
ReplyDeleteDo you think that board members that have family members of friends working for the district will vote for a contract that is fair to the taxpayers or one that will benefit their family the most?
Might they abstain from voting?
ReplyDeleteABSTAIN - to refrain from casting one's vote
Interesting! People on the board are accused on underhanded deals because of some presumed political connection but people with DIRECT connections to union members are given a free pass.
ReplyDeleteCan you tell us how many times Curran or Campbell have abstained from voting on matters that involve teachers?
Listen. Stop trying to switch the debate.
ReplyDeleteThe Friends of Valley View(QUIGLEY,GOUGIS,VENEGAS,BULL & HANSEN) received money from the teachers' union, and is heavily funded by Mayor Claar and The First Party.
Mark my word. Those 5 will approve the mult-year guaranteed raises, because they were paid to do so.
I agree with Rhonda's assertion that Curran & Campbell are fairly independent.
All 7 board members need to work on closing the $7.9 million deficit, legitimately.
Stick to the subject.
Legal Eagle,
ReplyDeleteThe topic of this discussion is a balanced budget so talking about Campbell and Curran voting against a reduction in spending is a very valid point.
Do you at least acknowledge the fact that Curran may have a greater stake in contract negotiations since his wife teaches in the district? Campbell has also subbed in the district and was involved in negotiations that resulted in the current contract. Her signature is even on the document!
Both of these two voted against the rest of the members, as you call them--- Friends of Valley View, when they approved a motion saving the taxpayers A LOT of money by getting rid of the pay increase for long term subs.
This sure sounds to me like they've got some friends or family members that were benefiting from this extra money. Why else would they vote AGAINST saving the taxpayers of VVSD 365U over $400,000.00? Can you show us that either of these two voted for any cuts in spending as it relates to teachers?
How much did the other two get paid to vote against reducing the budget by lowering the salary for subs?
ReplyDeleteJill, good question.
ReplyDeleteWhat benefit did they get from voting against reducing the pay of long term subs? Why would they have voted against that, but not against other reductions?
This makes me sick. Maybe voters should toss the entire board. Which members are up for re election?
ReplyDeleteNext up for re-election in 2013 are Bull, Campbell, Curran, and Venagas.
ReplyDeletecorrection not venagas but Hansen
ReplyDeleteGood morning!
ReplyDeleteJust a quick note -
Board members, STEVE QUIGLEY (president) and RICK GOUGIS (VP) both head-up the finance committee. They are a 2-member "expert" team that can answer bond debt, and union contract issues.
Consider giving them a call, or attend the board meeting on September 12 to speak with them directly.
Visit vvsd.org for contact information.